This blog explores both historical and current events guided by the thought of the leading thinkers, past and present, of this school or movement of theology. Refer to the Classic Posts, Great and Contemporary Thinkers, various links of all kinds, in addition to the Archives themselves. David is the founder and manager of this website, but many friends contribute to it on a regular basis.
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Thursday, September 15, 2005
"When You Tell the Truth About Them They Call You Uncharitable" ----Dorothy Day
The above Musings are a response to the conversation we were having in the comments of a below post. Neither Chris Burgwald nor are can in anyway be considered "Neocons, Whig Thomists, or War-hawks, etc." Chris and I were addressing the unnecessary rhetoric or name-calling. We believe there is no need for it from any party. It serves no one. If the shoes fit, wear it.
One must recognize that the application of the Just War Theory (and it's exactly that, a theory not doctrine) to a specific war is a prudential matter. Good Catholics can agree to disagree. For example, even Chris and I disagree on the War Against Terror in Iraq (ius ad bellum). Chris believes it was just and I believe it was unjust. One must also recognize the Church's stance on war in general is not pacifistic. It recognizes that in a Fallen World, sometimes it is necessary. The virtue of Justice demands war must occur at different junctures throughout history. This is why over several centuries, the Church developed the Just War Theory to help deal with this reality. Read Augustine or Aquinas among many, many other sources of which I can provide including Sacred Scripture. I have studied this matter at great length - consider my own vocation. To even infer or suggest that a Catholic who supports the War Against Terror, or the War in Iraq, is not somehow truly Catholic is wrong and I must protest.
Thanks for your commments, David. I think they are right on the money. I'm pleased that we agree on so much, and that even where we disagree (e.g. ius ad bellum re: Iraq), our disagreement is real (we both feel strongly about our positions), but is nonetheless civil.
I consider you a friend, but we have to be clear here. There is a distinction between killing and murdering. To murder means to intentionally and directly kill an innocent human. To kill is not evil, in fact it can be a good, a matter of justice. To murder is intrinsically evil.
I do not believe that you are stating that I would murder or lead my soldiers to murder... to intentionally and directly kill innocent humans. If you believe this is what American soldiers are doing all the time in Iraq, you are sadly mistaken or misinformed. I know too many good men that have served there or are serving there. Sometimes soldiers do murder and they will be appropriately punished and held accountable when all the facts of the events surrounding the incident are made known.
Stephen - Rest assured that neither Chris nor I belong to the "Blosser club." Stay attuned to Blosser's blog, The Church and the Liberal Tradition, and you will see how clear that is.
A little history of the Just War Theory in the new CCC... It was one of the most heated topics in the construction of the entire catechism. There was very little consensus on this topic therefore the criteria used in the CCC were kept to the very minimum.
In regards to the War in Iraq, Cardinal Ratzinger was very clear that he disagreed with a development of the Just War Theory to include preemptive strikes. One must say though that all moral theologians agree that if a threat is grave and imminent, appropriate action is required. The crux of the issue for me in regards to Iraq, it was neither grave nor imminent. Nor was the U.S. the proper authority. The UN was according to Ratzinger and the Roman Curia who made this very clear. .
Stephen - Rest assured that neither Chris nor I belong to the "Blosser club." Stay attuned to Blosser's blog, The Church and the Liberal Tradition, and you will see how clear that is.
I had not even realized the Blossers had a club, although we had a heck of a treehouse when we were little that was a sight to behold. Should I distribute identity cards and secret message decoder rings?
Stephen, laying aside your reference to "nasty groupies" and previous personal remarks, one of my recent postings to Religion and Liberty was an attempt to engage you in a civil dialogue on these issues. You will note the questions are addressed to you (as well as David). Feel free to respond and discuss, in the spirit of Pope Benedict XV:
"As regards matters in which without harm to faith or discipline - in the absence of any authoritative intervention of the Apostolic See -- there is room for divergent opinions, it is clearly the right of everyone to express and defend his own opinion. But in such discussions no expressions should be used which might constitute serious breaches of charity; let each one freely defend his own opinion, but let it be done with due moderation, so that no one should consider himself entitled to affix on those who merely do not agree with his ideas the stigma of disloyalty to faith or to discipline." -- Pope Benedict XV Ad Beatissimi Apostolorum 1914
5 comments:
The above Musings are a response to the conversation we were having in the comments of a below post. Neither Chris Burgwald nor are can in anyway be considered "Neocons, Whig Thomists, or War-hawks, etc." Chris and I were addressing the unnecessary rhetoric or name-calling. We believe there is no need for it from any party. It serves no one. If the shoes fit, wear it.
One must recognize that the application of the Just War Theory (and it's exactly that, a theory not doctrine) to a specific war is a prudential matter. Good Catholics can agree to disagree. For example, even Chris and I disagree on the War Against Terror in Iraq (ius ad bellum). Chris believes it was just and I believe it was unjust. One must also recognize the Church's stance on war in general is not pacifistic. It recognizes that in a Fallen World, sometimes it is necessary. The virtue of Justice demands war must occur at different junctures throughout history. This is why over several centuries, the Church developed the Just War Theory to help deal with this reality. Read Augustine or Aquinas among many, many other sources of which I can provide including Sacred Scripture. I have studied this matter at great length - consider my own vocation. To even infer or suggest that a Catholic who supports the War Against Terror, or the War in Iraq, is not somehow truly Catholic is wrong and I must protest.
Thanks for your commments, David. I think they are right on the money. I'm pleased that we agree on so much, and that even where we disagree (e.g. ius ad bellum re: Iraq), our disagreement is real (we both feel strongly about our positions), but is nonetheless civil.
I value our friendship.
Stephen,
I consider you a friend, but we have to be clear here. There is a distinction between killing and murdering. To murder means to intentionally and directly kill an innocent human. To kill is not evil, in fact it can be a good, a matter of justice. To murder is intrinsically evil.
I do not believe that you are stating that I would murder or lead my soldiers to murder... to intentionally and directly kill innocent humans. If you believe this is what American soldiers are doing all the time in Iraq, you are sadly mistaken or misinformed. I know too many good men that have served there or are serving there. Sometimes soldiers do murder and they will be appropriately punished and held accountable when all the facts of the events surrounding the incident are made known.
Stephen - Rest assured that neither Chris nor I belong to the "Blosser club." Stay attuned to Blosser's blog, The Church and the Liberal Tradition, and you will see how clear that is.
A little history of the Just War Theory in the new CCC... It was one of the most heated topics in the construction of the entire catechism. There was very little consensus on this topic therefore the criteria used in the CCC were kept to the very minimum.
In regards to the War in Iraq, Cardinal Ratzinger was very clear that he disagreed with a development of the Just War Theory to include preemptive strikes. One must say though that all moral theologians agree that if a threat is grave and imminent, appropriate action is required. The crux of the issue for me in regards to Iraq, it was neither grave nor imminent. Nor was the U.S. the proper authority. The UN was according to Ratzinger and the Roman Curia who made this very clear. .
Stephen - Rest assured that neither Chris nor I belong to the "Blosser club." Stay attuned to Blosser's blog, The Church and the Liberal Tradition, and you will see how clear that is.
I had not even realized the Blossers had a club, although we had a heck of a treehouse when we were little that was a sight to behold. Should I distribute identity cards and secret message decoder rings?
Stephen, laying aside your reference to "nasty groupies" and previous personal remarks, one of my recent postings to Religion and Liberty was an attempt to engage you in a civil dialogue on these issues. You will note the questions are addressed to you (as well as David). Feel free to respond and discuss, in the spirit of Pope Benedict XV:
"As regards matters in which without harm to faith or discipline - in the absence of any authoritative intervention of the Apostolic See -- there is room for divergent opinions, it is clearly the right of everyone to express and defend his own opinion. But in such discussions no expressions should be used which might constitute serious breaches of charity; let each one freely defend his own opinion, but let it be done with due moderation, so that no one should consider himself entitled to affix on those who merely do not agree with his ideas the stigma of disloyalty to faith or to discipline." -- Pope Benedict XV Ad Beatissimi Apostolorum 1914
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