This blog explores both historical and current events guided by the thought of the leading thinkers, past and present, of this school or movement of theology. Refer to the Classic Posts, Great and Contemporary Thinkers, various links of all kinds, in addition to the Archives themselves. David is the founder and manager of this website, but many friends contribute to it on a regular basis.
Joel is a bright and very good man, but he also publicly professes the heresies of Calvin. Hence, referring Catholics to him as an advocate of Balthasar (like Communio and many other solid agencies have done, in addition to yourself) will serve to discourage those who are faithful and obedient to mother church from reading Balthasar respectfully, a fate that has befallen several of my friends. Moreover, how can a person who denies that fallen humans remain free to say yes or no to God possibly agree with Balthasar and other ressourcement theologians, who were inspired primarily by the Eastern fathers? Every one of Calvin's distinctive errors, such as total depravity, unconditional election, and especially limited atonement violates the entire corpus of both Balthasar and the sacred tradition of Eastern Christians.
"Those who sincerely love truth, which is the daughter of the Holy Spirit, are not those who are willing to contemplate it only in those instances where it happens to shine out most brightly but those to whom it is so dear that it is so dear that they seek out the least shreds of it wherever it can be found, even in those places where the ignorance and perversity of men have made it harder to recognize.
Those who lack the courage to love truth even where it is disfigured are incapable of loving it with a pure love in those places where it stands revealed in all its glory." Yves de Montcheuil, SJ qtd in Henri de Lubac, Three Jesuits Speak, Ignatius.
Joel Garver is indeed a good man, and a fine thinker. I've enjoyed his blog about as long as its been around, and he's been very open to email Q&A as well.
I've been reading Joel's blog lately, myself. I've been getting into reading some books from the Radical Orthodoxy series, as well as taking a class from my pastor on the subject early this summer which really rocked my world. I say that to say that Joel reads quite a bit of RO stuff himself. Search around his archives a bit and you'll find reviews of some Milbank et. al. stuff. Joel's very articulate!
This is precisely my point, gentlemen. You are not serving our separated brethren well (among whom I was numbered for 35 yrs) by enabling them to feel as though they were in alliance with Balthasar and other faithfully Catholic disciples. "Radical orthodoxy" is just another self-generated term, like "gay," designed to console its subjects with the thought that they are healthy, when the fact is that all Christians of the first millennium and the vast majority since then would and do recognize Calvin's distinctive doctrine to have departed from the truth of divine revelation, aka heresy. While fully affirming the truth of Montcheuil's traditional wisdom, are we blithely to allow self-defined "Reformed" Christians to languish in what all of the fathers, councils, and doctors, both East and West (the old Augustine excepted), knew and know to be deformed?
I have much respect for anyone who reads and takes seriously the thought of various Ressourcment thinkers including de Lubac, Balthasar, Giussani, and R.O. thinkers including Milbank, Rowland, etc.
Joel, and other Calvinists, must speak for themselves on the doctrinal issues that separate Calvinists from Catholics. John Calvin did study the writings of the saints, including the Church Fathers. Jeff - things are not as simple as you make them out to be. I for one have many Calvinist friends, both from the Dutch Reformed Tradition and Scottish as well.
I also great respect the work of Timothy George, Thomas Oden, Christopher Hall, Carl Braaten & Robert W. Jenson among many other Protestant thinkers. One must remember Balthasar very much engaged in a conversation with Protestantism, i.e. his friendship with Karl Barth, etc.
I checked with a friend about this and we believe to the best of our knowledge that Milbank is still an Anglican. He grew up in the Church of the Nazarene through adolescence. His grandfather was a District Superintendent in the Church.
8 comments:
Joel is a bright and very good man, but he also publicly professes the heresies of Calvin. Hence, referring Catholics to him as an advocate of Balthasar (like Communio and many other solid agencies have done, in addition to yourself) will serve to discourage those who are faithful and obedient to mother church from reading Balthasar respectfully, a fate that has befallen several of my friends.
Moreover, how can a person who denies that fallen humans remain free to say yes or no to God possibly agree with Balthasar and other ressourcement theologians, who were inspired primarily by the Eastern fathers? Every one of Calvin's distinctive errors, such as total depravity, unconditional election, and especially limited atonement violates the entire corpus of both Balthasar and the sacred tradition of Eastern Christians.
"Those who sincerely love truth, which is the daughter of the Holy Spirit, are not those who are willing to contemplate it only in those instances where it happens to shine out most brightly but those to whom it is so dear that it is so dear that they seek out the least shreds of it wherever it can be found, even in those places where the ignorance and perversity of men have made it harder to recognize.
Those who lack the courage to love truth even where it is disfigured are incapable of loving it with a pure love in those places where it stands revealed in all its glory."
Yves de Montcheuil, SJ qtd in Henri de Lubac, Three Jesuits Speak, Ignatius.
Well said, Fred.
Joel Garver is indeed a good man, and a fine thinker. I've enjoyed his blog about as long as its been around, and he's been very open to email Q&A as well.
I've been reading Joel's blog lately, myself. I've been getting into reading some books from the Radical Orthodoxy series, as well as taking a class from my pastor on the subject early this summer which really rocked my world. I say that to say that Joel reads quite a bit of RO stuff himself. Search around his archives a bit and you'll find reviews of some Milbank et. al. stuff. Joel's very articulate!
peace,
eric
This is precisely my point, gentlemen. You are not serving our separated brethren well (among whom I was numbered for 35 yrs) by enabling them to feel as though they were in alliance with Balthasar and other faithfully Catholic disciples. "Radical orthodoxy" is just another self-generated term, like "gay," designed to console its subjects with the thought that they are healthy, when the fact is that all Christians of the first millennium and the vast majority since then would and do recognize Calvin's distinctive doctrine to have departed from the truth of divine revelation, aka heresy. While fully affirming the truth of Montcheuil's traditional wisdom, are we blithely to allow self-defined "Reformed" Christians to languish in what all of the fathers, councils, and doctors, both East and West (the old Augustine excepted), knew and know to be deformed?
Christ is in our midst!
I have much respect for anyone who reads and takes seriously the thought of various Ressourcment thinkers including de Lubac, Balthasar, Giussani, and R.O. thinkers including Milbank, Rowland, etc.
Joel, and other Calvinists, must speak for themselves on the doctrinal issues that separate Calvinists from Catholics. John Calvin did study the writings of the saints, including the Church Fathers. Jeff - things are not as simple as you make them out to be. I for one have many Calvinist friends, both from the Dutch Reformed Tradition and Scottish as well.
I also great respect the work of Timothy George, Thomas Oden, Christopher Hall, Carl Braaten & Robert W. Jenson among many other Protestant thinkers. One must remember Balthasar very much engaged in a conversation with Protestantism, i.e. his friendship with Karl Barth, etc.
Jeff, our disagreement isn't over the fact that Catholicism has the fullness of truth... it's about the best way to draw others closer to that truth.
There is a difference.
Justin,
I checked with a friend about this and we believe to the best of our knowledge that Milbank is still an Anglican. He grew up in the Church of the Nazarene through adolescence. His grandfather was a District
Superintendent in the Church.
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